Jan 15, 2008|
The two major players in the battle over a proposed Cape Cod wind farm are on with Tom Finneran after the release of a federal report favorable of the project.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
We move from the turnpike and so. Proposed toll increases -- big headline the headline I should say in the book the book today. Which is all about Kate we and it says the -- -- proposal clears a big obstacle. Federal agency calls. It's impact on the environment minor. That is good news for cape wind proponents which include Deval Patrick and many many other people have yet to I think. The project remains controversial with a lot of folks with delighted to welcome to parents forum. Jim Gordon he's the guy who came up with the idea back in July of 2001 you get a an award for patients Jim Gordon. Well thank you I remember seven years ago when they came into your office in the state house to brief view. On this project I think we have come a long way and I think it's due mainly to. Many of the national and local environmental organizations and labor union health advocates and citizens that. Really want to -- dark country -- step in the right direction and and increase energy independence and lower energy costs and and really address climate change. Jim the specific news out of yesterday was that the United States and Minerals Management Service. -- of the cape wind project a thumbs up saying that'd that would have relatively minor re impacts on terrorism -- alive. Fisheries coastal vegetation. And the like as you in your team scanned the US management Minerals Management Service report. Is there anything in the at this point -- lobs you or concerns you. You know a time there really isn't. And minerals management reporting and for those listeners minerals management as part of the Department of the Interior. And congress authorized them as the lead federal per rating agencies. As part of the energy policy act of 2005. So -- this report that was released yesterday and visit historic moment Massachusetts because. -- which represents the first offshore wind. Project in the united states of Massachusetts really has an opportunity. To capture world leadership positions in offshore and global energy create a lot of jobs but this report. Validate the other reports of federal and state agencies have been reviewing this project now. Or seven years I mean in Massachusetts senate side ward. Approved cape -- connection into the -- -- Because -- that it would provide significant regional air quality the lower energy cost. And contribute to choose between global portfolio -- Secretary symbol of the Metz Chief Executive officer of the art -- All oh in May of 2007. Secure report came out from the state approving -- -- -- environmental impact ward so this project it has been rigorously. Comprehensively in that we didn't find anything alarmed in the yesterday's -- were very pleased with. Jim let me go right to some of the objections that have been raised over the years. As I -- the end of our recall it these tile was even though there are several about five or 67 miles off sure would be maybe 402 -- 440 feet 450 feet. So it's not insignificant it's like a forty story building -- And we're talking about roughly a 130 turbans now the turbines -- -- say it that way the united both though that in Europe there's a proliferation of these -- jobs in the make abundant use of it. Help me to understand why you need one though those that number of turbines are we -- -- EM to. The size them -- -- he has the comparative point that I'd ask you to focus in on. Over the weekend I was down at the Mass Maritime Academy. And go like the town hall they have a they have a windmill you know the wind station up there. I looked at a fairly closely I don't have an engineer's -- but it I note was not 440 feet high and I thought to myself hmm. I wonder why it's this size here and may be -- size in the in Indian envy you didn't Nantucket sound. Well that that's good question are we were involved -- installer that we are that Mets merit and extremely happy with it in the water when energy. Here's the situation. When you bring wind turbines offshore. In the distance where offshore first of all -- mitigated the visual impact significantly so that if you was standing critical speech. Looking out on the rise in. And it would have to be cleared date you perceive and interpret. The wind turbines were a year about a -- off the horizon now you know some people reacted. May think that this is a sacrifice it is changing changing the rise -- But I'll tell you something with the urgent. Economic energy and environmental challenges that the Cape and Islands are facing an -- -- We think that that's small price to pay or taking action against global climate change. Increasing energy independence you know and really satellite industry in Massachusetts and the other thing. Beauty is in the -- be older. There are a lot of people. That the scene in arms around the world and I think -- -- they think that the structure as a graceful the late stir in very slowly they have become tourism attraction in Europe in in other parts of the state earlier and -- swing Irvin. So this favorability rating actually goes up after the winter and installed people really. Have a chance to live with that and art you know get -- the. Jim I want to talked about some of the political leaders Deval Patrick on one side governor former governor Romney and said Ted Kennedy congressman tell -- on the other before -- do that however. The alliance to protect Nantucket sound has been. A vocal persistent critic review in the proposal I read in the globe today. That they issued a statement that said the following they noted that the federal review concluded. That electricity generated by these wind turbines is projected to cost twice the current. Price in southeastern Massachusetts. Help me understand that with -- -- about a hundred bucks a barrel give or take natural gas has moved up dramatically since you and I talked about the suspected 2001 is is the alliance site and of the federal review that this energy would come in at twice the present price and accurate observation on their -- Note that all occupation and you know it's unfortunate but you know this is an organization that has -- history of providing misleading information and propaganda about the project. Fumble -- started this project oil prices were twenty dollars a barrel and natural gas -- barrel right now. You know consumers throughout so eastern Massachusetts are saying about eleven and a sense. Severe electricity. That the project the -- economic analysis and it was done for comparative purposes they -- it's it. Have said that the energy would be twelve point two cents. Verses about eleven and -- -- war what residential consumers paying. Commercial industrial consumers are paying more than and that's just for the kill water -- Outcome with China in the Indian economies emerging. And more pressure and demand on fossil fuels we think that those prices and continued to rise. And create rising electricity prices the nice thing about -- And it is we don't have any fuel costs. So that we are going to be able to offer long term stable electricity prices or electricity consumers. We believe that you know kilowatt -- -- what basis if you rate. Long term value or Massachusetts -- the -- -- in this region but more importantly when you look at the price of energy. You have to add the external cost of burning fossil fuels that doesn't couple or your electric bill but we know. Helped health care cost increase because as more and dimensions. We know that is environmental degradation. From burning fossil fuels that we -- order taxes we go visit military premium because unlike the global. I'll -- security patrol these things all factory in and that is why it is such a clarion call. From both sides of the dial in Washington in Massachusetts. To increase the development of renewable -- -- -- -- you mentioned the the military premium let me just -- -- don't thought to have my own opinion -- want to take some calls with talking to Jim Gordon he is the proponent of the cape wind project a project that would place a 130 wind turbines. In Nantucket sound some people livid and objected to really quite vocally about this for many many years governor Deval Patrick talked about it in favor of the during the course of his campaign one point to that I'd make as well Jim with regard to these fossil. The burning of fossil fuels. It just it it infuriates me in it worries me as a parent and as a taxpayer or citizen the United States. That as we continue to import oil E sensual -- -- exporting hundreds and hundreds of millions really billions of dollars to regimes to countries. That not really always best friends and our most consistent allies whether it be Venezuela whether it be Iran Iraq and the like. A lot of uncertainty over the you have the military premium you weakening currency instead of getting the independent and sustainable level of energy. That that cape wind would propose given this favorable report that you -- at a US Minerals Management Service as of yesterday. What do you hope for if not expect from congressman Delahunt -- Senator Kennedy each of whom have expressed their concerns about the project. First well I'd of the congressman development -- opponents for global energy. And I know that they had an initial concerns about eight when project and what impact would have. On the environment in order also orders in the now with this key report out which is over a 2000 pages and it adds to the audience scientific. A resurgence socio economic valuation of this project I'm hopeful. That congressman development and Senator Kennedy will look at this report put it into the context. Of the urgent challenges that Massachusetts faces. Looks at the rise to create a clean energy economy that's going to -- -- scientists and engineers green collar jobs. And hopefully it will. I'll withdraw their opposition and in get -- In exciting project that you know will be embraced by the island and you know something look. The latest public opinion polls that have been done on this project. By independent bi partisan think in colors 84% a message to citizens. Are supporting keep wearing statewide in economic keep in. Right it's over 61% of the people and those numbers are growing as people understand the urgency. Tackling climate change because you have -- a that is a low laying coastal community. It is most at risk to the impact of climate change and talked about -- -- and frequent warm. And hurricane roading -- the impact of climate change and centuries in Avian species. Mark mother's insurance got a year ago along thousands of other. Or mortars on the aid because insurance companies don't want to ensure home with a moral of the -- on the case. Now let's take some calls with talking to Jim Gordon he is the pro opponent of the cape wind project 617266. 6868 is the number it is these story in the Boston Globe huge headline. Big step forward for cape with yesterday let's take calls Davis calling from Norton good morning -- -- on the it would Jim Gordon and Tom Finneran. Yeah I want to ask you get out. What what are the secondary impact potentially for industry development and -- chip it's related to renewable energy built a development research manufacturing repair of these kind of wind turbines that are. Well that's a great question eight and in first of all. Global insight did a study required by the government on the economic impact of cape which itself and we're looking at probably creating about 600 jobs during the construction phase this could be indirect jobs this project is going to. People largest sustainable economic development in the history of this region this project can actually act as a catalyst. Or offshore renewal energy we become the center of that we have the academic institutions. Like what's hole oceanographic institute MIT oceans program. You ask renewable energy laboratory so we put academics together. With the merchant mean yeah -- Companies in Massachusetts we can really the worldwide leader in the industry and this is an industry that is really growing. And it's going to be a trillion dollar industry so you know we think -- keep win. It is not only important from Massachusetts but with what we learn it is we have the first -- in offshore win. We can be exporting projects. And and having people work on it you know in the eighteen hundreds -- in the whaling fleet in the Pacific Ocean. I mean so historically you know. We know how to take technology we know how to create spinoffs from it and this is going to create a lot of jobs and that's why. The maritime trade council. Which is the largest labor union with people working. On the ocean -- partly the nationals seekers in the largest commercial -- and we have endorsed the -- when project. Jim it's makes a makes a lot of sense to be quick question that the globe says this project will cost about a billion dollars -- building these -- In the relatively shallow water of Nantucket sound just to give me in the listen as a comparative and going to get right to the rest of the calls in a moment. If you work. Asked to off thought about the club building a similar sized project in the deep water. South of Nantucket where the -- as a couple hundred feet as opposed to maybe 202530 feet what would that cost differential -- how would that compare it to the billion dollars the billion dollar cost of the cape wind project. -- -- -- The reason that we're putting it art or should shall because as you mentioned it shallow water. But more importantly it's protected by the vineyard and Nantucket -- wave heights are low. Now imagine going out 200 feet of water. Contending with sixty foot waves as opposed to one to what -- waves. Or or shall the problem is that today it is not. Police in economically viable. To put optional win for and indeed waters I mean look. You can build a wind problem among if you wanted to spend the -- dollars that would be required to. But you know with. This industry will incrementally it -- so. We've got to do here short projects in -- mutual remember where thirteen miles from in -- it. Six miles from aliens in nine miles from. -- but as we. Get more experience in technology advances. I mean eventually we will go out to people waters in and as the price of energy continues to rise maybe some day it'll be just the. Becomes more economically fees are okay let's go to Greg Greg's but wait great from Alec in Europe the only Jim Gordon and Tom Finneran welcome Greg. Yeah you know Robert green -- sort of following that no one -- -- kind of follows and just -- it as you I keep saying well this is going to be about. They don't know an injury. Generated to power all at Cape Cod but the key word that I never slaughtering there was. At a discount you know where you're gonna do it doesn't take away the view why not at least offer hey next hundred years will be good to have percent discount for Carol ought to ever -- implicated. Well first book Greg you know I you know don't agree that we take away you eight in Ireland that means you know this is a project that several vials or air and there are many many people that. That -- looking at offshore wind -- that mean -- become eco tourism attractions round the world. And more importantly what we're offering. Imagine if you could have fixed the price of gasoline for your car five years ago under a twenty year. Long term contract affects the price of heating oil what we're going to be able off. Our long term stable. Energy prices or the citizens of the commonwealth and you know today I think that's very valuable commodity I think. You know there is a pent up demand from renewable energy people want to do something to help the economy environment -- -- children and grandchildren. So are we we think that this is going to be a great project for Jews. Let's take a call from Paul in Melrose -- on the it would Jim Gordon of cape -- and Tom Finneran. Good morning to speak and morning -- I don't like it I think it's ironic that. You know obvious part is taken so long when we are some people looking. He dropped the the wagon did this the foreign entity like this because as with that money that's going overseas -- what -- fighting all these things. Why -- we something it's that's just it's good every party. But the people -- it and to beat people with Marty -- -- so when dated green and state all of might expect these are not going to be Greek. And I guess it's just very ironic that this is -- so long. Account and it and I think it's critical -- don't want it's unfortunate that it thinks this much of a process. And the money that's wasted quite frankly. You know quite -- -- be what Betty. You know I I I do share your frustration you know here's a project that. Produces bureau pollute emissions from whom zero water -- discharges -- away it goes to. Helping to halt some of the most important environmental issues that our nation state and and it has taken along. We have transferred America's wealth to countries you're on the pointed out to countries that don't cheer our value that's not financing. Jim that's about it drives me absolutely crazy to transfer of American wealth each and every day every DM year. Do you UT came into CB in July or August of 1 it's now January of 8 the globe says this probably won't actually get finished RR apartment you know an operating until. 201110 years of sending daily wealth abroad. As opposed to invest in yet. Ian ourselves -- mob well in our -- and I understand the a static -- in the need for a good with our competent researcher and all the different issues that are raised. I'm not saying just you know rubber stamp being. Do this for Jim gore because he's a good guy do this for this reason and that reason it has to be Farah but ten DMB -- come I -- -- could put a rocket ship but the mas and that. -- -- -- I mean this is taken longer than nuclear power plants and coal fired power remains well I I looked the opposition group spent. Over twenty. Million dollars twenty million dollars is documented through the year 990 or -- five you know -- tax deductible money. So they've created a lot of propaganda in fear mongering and it's skillfully -- Note to try to obstruct and -- this project so you know I'm hoping and maybe I'm naive but I am hoping. That you know some of the opposition will take a look at this report recognize its -- citizens. Desire you know moving in different and direction. And look. You know our national security our economic security you know our our environmental security all depend on the energy choices we make and in you know what. Over the next forty years our energy consumption is going to grow. So what are we do those who oppose -- what should we build and wish we don't do that is rebuild war group we're all player. What should we start transition to a more sustainable energy future with projects like -- I just don't like subsidizing hostile regimes let's take a call from John in Dorchester with squeeze and a couple squeeze -- couple more calls John Dion next on the it would Jim Gordon and Tom Finneran. Good morning particular caught her -- I live in the polish trying outdoor traps are Norton I had. And I am think Jerry forever have you -- to -- with -- -- barring. That is acts that are electricians union. Arming their you know I think it would -- a great idea because it showed how beautiful these will be and I actually went -- high school on the cheap. And I get machine all of the opposition and optical battle united view. Arms to get there are. Well I'll tell you something your kind words or are are what has helped. You -- stay the course along with so many other citizens in Massachusetts the IPW. Could -- most of them because look. It training -- they're members of the future they recognize that solar -- baltics and wind power. Is the future particularly in New England where we don't. You know supply indigenous energy supplies like oil and coal and natural gas. This is an abundant resource that we have it on. You know that we felt we were at the energy and of the energy pipeline to so many years so why not put. Laborers electricians metal workers -- workers to work you know building a better energy future. Tomorrow oh yeah that's right you know I know a lot of those guys Richard Gambino Mikey Monahan a whole bunch of guys and they really forward thinking with three got to their membership is this is the future you see that. Dug Mass Maritime Academy a seat in the town hall. You see it in at the IBW the mayor himself wants to you know just got over a report that. It's a little bit too gusty on City Hall plaza but the notion of turbans he and -- Jimmy hunt his environmental Stewart -- leader good stuff let's see I think we can squeeze one more and it looks like it's Glenn walked Leo wait late. From the CEO alliance -- Iran -- with Jim Gordon and Tom Finneran. Morning gentlemen your debating the way and I just called him. And necessary in the earlier part legitimate you've been talking about the outrageous economics of this thing. What I've been talking about landed the fact that you know the Saudi arabians lift oil out of the ground the less than five dollars a barrel in this selling -- -- or -- I don't we have dollars a -- out. Rages cost of your electricity let's not talk about wind is free. That report that just came out said you're caught -- double the market. That's that is -- completely false statement Arlo hey you know everything in that report is is is credible or not. -- that report did not say that you are paying a look over eleven cents for electricity just to -- energy a lot in in. You're going around saying you're paying six cents for electricity that's not true. Let's take -- electorate. Bill I don't know -- when you talk about the wholesale market you bring up -- -- proper report that wholesale market is six cents. So let's let's do apples and apples here you've been getting away with is too long. Just -- -- everybody about these these economic let's talk about -- eat a lot of time with mr. Gorton. On economics. Well glad glad this just doesn't talk -- aren't so let me go let me get a word in edgewise MI don't show if you don't mind. I asked I asked Jim Gordon about this because the globe does report it the globe reports. Saying that the federal review concluded that the electricity generated by the wind turbines is projected. The cost twice that current price in southeastern Massachusetts and Jim addressed that. With three got two other costs that reflected on the bill and as I recall about eleven and -- cents per kilowatt hour and he said. The energy from this would be about twelve point two cents not a huge differential certainly not double and yet you get all the advantages. Of sustainable you're -- burning fossil -- you're not sending -- military overseas steps to -- to die for oil and I'm not sending hundreds of millions billions of dollars -- -- to hostile -- I mean I live on the -- not that I have a house on the -- let me say it that -- and I -- not troubled by this at all -- trying to think -- the future as much about my children and grandchildren as it is about -- and -- Well well you know costs are going down. In the wholesale market the last couple years there's what you you were talking about wind turbines on -- that's excellent. I mean those things are viable. One should go out into the ocean if you double the cost long term this thing won't be able to be maintained that hasn't been -- that hasn't been addressed in the report. There is -- -- so does -- through your life if that's true we won't get financing for the project you'll never have to worry about it. The Europeans to putting optional waiting arms up and down the coast of the United Kingdom mint -- -- Times -- -- electric bills are three times the Betty has 20% of the people poor the Cape Cod recurrent crimes reported that. We can't have our electric rates go up. That's the whole thing that's missing -- there's no impact on what is the electric great player going to pay it talk all about this market. Everything else but we really need to get incident. When I'm the only guy I'm glad I'm the only guy in the debate without also without us financial stake in its let me ask -- -- question. As it is is the suggestion that somehow our other continuation of a policy that looks at Cole. Oil and natural gas. And avoidance of nuclear our refusal to drill -- short EU without wind. Whether it's Jim's project -- someone else's what the legitimate alternatives 2025 years out any we. Probably right optimal effect on our timeline. There we have biofuels coming along. We've got coal projects that are going to be sequestering CEO who were still the Saudi Arabia cold that's all out the midwest we have to worry about. The pollution coming this way. -- it's a red Herring to say this -- farm is going to stop ordeal stop our need for oil we're going to back out natural gas we're not going to back out -- also this thing has nothing to do with. The price of oil we've got plenty of options that we're we're working on. Let me I I know you come up from a long history in the coal industry you can come along and integrity of the natural gas in this year period -- of fossil. You'll value major millions on fossil remains a lot more money than I did. In the fossil in the less so let me try to get the -- -- -- to red -- into the gym I've done more. Go ahead bloodletting and Jim the last word on this and I got a rap because of up against the breakaway go ahead Jim -- -- -- -- -- You know certainly. Have listened to -- group is seven years. But you know yesterday there were there was a press conference with -- -- -- environmental and labor unions. On the phone extolling that this report talking about -- wouldn't be part of a writer render future. So I mean. We have. You have to ask yourself why so many people are supporting this project what major environmental organizations. Look at it in consumer advocates is supporting it I understand that this group has spent a lot of money trying to prevent this project. But what's really happening is that we've got them in a different energy direction and start to develop more renewable energy aggressively in the state of. Well to Glenn who called in to Jim Gordon who spent some time -- I think everybody now knows why this is a major headline in the globe because it's controversial. It's a huge project I see it in a positive light appreciate -- colony and Jim Gordon thank you for your time and insight on this I've got to take a short commercial break will be